An interview with Maura D. Shaw
Conducted By: Charlene Austin

Maura D. Shaw has been writing all her life, when she is not caring for her family, editing, and traveling to research her own novels. Her newest novel "The Keeners" took her to the land of her ancestors, Ireland. With her gift for storytelling, Maura takes readers on a heartrending journey to County Clare and into the devastation and grief of the 1840's potato famine, to live it with young Margaret Meehan as she keens for the dead and, with her rebel husband and the strength and courage of her own rebel heart, starts a new life in the new world.

Char: Maura, editor, wife, mother, researcher, speaker, you are a busy lady. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us on Writers and Readers Network.

Maura D. Shaw: Talking with writers and readers is one of the joys of my work. I learn so much from everyone. You can't be a writer if you're not a voracious reader, and often readers will take the risk of writing themselves. It's a scary step, but you can move back and forth between the two roles whenever you need to!

Char: Margaret's story is a heartrending and uplifting tribute to the strength and courage of the Irish people. "The Keeners" A wonderful title for this, I did not know about this ancient art until I read Margaret's story. Can you share with our readers a little about this ancient tradition and art?

Shaw: Keening was an ancient Celtic practice in Ireland, a way of honoring the dead and providing a way for the people to accept the loss and move through the grief. Because it was mostly an oral tradition, few keens were recorded in writing, but there are several famous ones from the 16th century that have been preserved. What's so interesting to me is that the traditional form of the keen--a kind of epic poetry, really--follows exactly the process of grief and acceptance that Dr. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross identified in the 1970s in her book "On Death and Dying." We go from denial to anger to bargaining to depression to acceptance, and this is true of the ancient keens and of the one that I wrote for Margaret in the book. Keening died out in Ireland after the Famine and was not carried over to America. (But I remember that my aunt used to wail and fall off the chair at Irish wakes when I was a child.) A scholar in Ireland has written some interesting articles about how keening was used as a voice for the women who had no other way to express their opinions in a male-dominated society, and it was also politically subversive because the English oppressors could not understand the Gaelic language and thought it was merely shrieking howls. But it wasn't.

Char: Researching for new novels is always interesting and educational. I imagine traveling to Ireland, visiting there was wonderful. But, the history and devastation of the blight, that journey into history could not have been pleasant. What or who inspired this story?

Shaw: The Keeners was the surprising result of my effort to tell the story of a real person named Nora Connolly O'Brien, the daughter of James Connolly, a union organizer who led the Dublin Easter Uprising in 1916 and was executed. I met Nora when she was in her mid-eighties, because I was inspired by her book about her father and her own role as a young woman in the Irish rebellion. Before I could tell Nora's story in 1916, I wanted to go back to the roots of the Irish Famine, to tell Irish Americans what happened to their families and why the hatred of the British was passed down in our bones. No one wrote or talked about the Famine for nearly 150 years--it was similar to the Holocaust survivors who didn't pass their memories to their children. But the feelings are still there, and they affect us. We're always waiting for the next tragedy. I want to bring a sense of hope for the future to The Keeners, as it shows what true love (and hard work) can achieve. At the end of the book, Nora Connolly is only a young girl, but we'll hear more about her in the next volume.

And yes, some of the research in Ireland was heartbreaking, visiting the Famine graves that now lie underneath golf courses and the ancient tomb where my character Nuala Lynch lived (that part's based on a real woman named Biddy Rabbit), but it's such a beautiful place that I'd go back in a heartbeat!

Char: You have a strong supporting cast of characters, but the Keeners is Margaret's story. Who is Margaret Meehan?

Shaw: Margaret is a composite of the bright, true, loving, courageous women who emigrated to America and made a life for themselves and their families. She happens to be Irish in my novel, but her sisters came from all the countries of the world. Margaret also has a spiritual side, a gift for keening and healing, and she's wise in the ways of natural healing--as so many of our great-grandmothers were. She's brave enough to love a man who is danger personified, and to respect him for his commitment to freedom. She also tries to keep her sense of humor, without which we'd all be lost.

Char: "The Keeners" is a journey through not only Irish history, but he history of the Irish struggle to find and build a new home in a new land. Tom, Margaret's husband continues the rebel battle in the Pig Iron Factories of New York. I read you have more plans to share the history of the Irish battle for freedom and peace, tell us a little about what readers can look forward to in upcoming Maura D. Shaw works.

Shaw: Thanks for asking. The next volume of the trilogy will center on Margaret's great-niece Grace Meehan, who lives in Belfast and goes with Nora Connolly to serve as a volunteer nurse in the Dublin Uprising of 1916, and then escapes with Nora to America (smuggled out of Ireland dressed as boys) to tell the Irish Americans about the struggle for freedom. That's a true story I heard from Nora herself. The third volume carries the story forward to Northern Ireland in 1972, when Margaret's great-granddaughter Delia goes to Ireland and becomes involved in the IRA violence after Bloody Sunday. Years later, Delia's own daughter tries to bring the violence to a close when she goes to Ireland as part of the peace accord. I'm just hoping that by the time I write that book, the peace will be a reality. And of course the men that Margaret's descendents fall in love with are just as committed and dangerous as their rebel ancestor Tom Riordan was. I adore writing those characters. They're almost as much fun as pirates.

Char: You also write children's and young adult stories. Where can we find Maura D. Shaw works for younger readers?

Shaw: Yes, I write books that are meant to inspire young people to work for peace and justice in the world. Most are nonfiction, such as Ten Amazing People and How They Changed the World, but one that I'm most fond of is Owl's Journey, a book of historical fiction about a stone owl that travels through 400 years of American history. My website www.mauradshaw.com has information about those books.

Char: What authors have most inspired your writing?

Shaw: I love Maeve Binchy's stories of modern Ireland, because they're about the perils of love, too. And Mark Twain is probably the biggest influence, because he used his journalistic training to find the truth at the bottom of every story and then present it with humor, in a style that's accessible to readers of all ages--and continues to be after 100 years. My guilty pleasure is reading each new book by Janet Evanovich. My mom and I share them and pretend to be shocked by Stephanie Plum and Lula's antics.

Char: You are also an editor. What advise do you have for aspiring writers?

Shaw: I think that an editor's first job is to encourage writers to do the best work they can do--to tell the truth of their stories, as bravely as they can. It takes a lot of courage to write a book, and it can seem impossible when you first start out. But you have to be willing to write what you believe is real--whether in fiction or in nonfiction--because that's how you access your voice. You give your fictional characters real emotions from your own life, although of course you try not to violate the privacy of the people who might have been the source of those emotional experiences. (You don't want your mother to disown you or your ex-boyfriend to stalk you, believe me.) A writer learns to take the emotion and transfer it to a different situation in the book.

The other important advice is what every professional writer will tell you--just do it. Nothing gets written while you're standing around wringing your hands (trust me, I know). Sit down and do it. If you think it's awful on the first try, then don't print it out. But at least you've got a start. Fix it and keep going. None of us can afford to wait for the right moment to compose the most elegant sentence that ever appeared in print--we are driven to tell the stories of people that matter to us. My own motto is "Ever Onward."

Char: Where can interested reader purchase a copy of "The Keeners"

Shaw: The Keeners is now available, as of March 1st, from online booksellers and independent bookstores, as well as the major chains.

Char: Maura, again, thank you for sharing your time with us on Writers and Readers Network.

The Keeners

By Maura D. Shaw

Maura D. Shaw gives readers a story rich in history and steeped in tradition in her new novel “The Keeners” from Medallion Press.

All is blooming in County Clare, Ireland in the spring of 1846, including seventeen-year-old Margaret Meehan. She is sure the heart of handsome rebel Tom Roidan is hers and he will soon take her hand. When not practicing the ancient art of the Keeners, singing and chanting songs of lament for the dead with Nuala Lynch, Margaret dreams and plans with her best friend, Kitty Dooley, of a cottage across the road from each other and their children playing in the lane.

But it is 1846, the year of the blight. The potato blight and famine will soon shatter her dreams. The devastation has her keening daily for friends, family, strangers, and her beloved County Clare.

Most of her family is gone. Kitty is a broken shell. Nuala has keened her last lament. Tom’s Rebel activities have made him a wanted man. It’s to America for Margaret Meehan. She flees with Tom to Troy New York. With a heart that keens for County Clare and a young girl’s dreams, she will carve a new life in a strange land with the man she loves.

A gifted storyteller with a mastery of language writes a tightly paced story, and Maura D. Shaw is such a storyteller. Her knowledge of Ireland and its history, her empathy with a people she is connected to through her great grandmother, add a depth to this story that pulled me in to feel the hunger, pain, loss, fear, love, strength, and courage that take Margaret from the shores of Ireland to a new home and a new life. She captures the devastation of a land and its people through the eyes of characters that tug at the heartstrings and tie them into a forget-me-not bow. “The Keeners” is a bookshelf keeper. A book, a story, you will want to read again, from a talented author who respects her craft and cares about her readers and her subject.

-Charlene Austin © 2005 (chars@writersandreadersnetwork.com)
Charlene writes fiction under the pen name Carrie Lynn Lyons
Visit her and learn about her new title “Dream Pictures”

Writers and Readers Network Chat with Author Maura Shaw

Clyons: Welcome, Maura, thank you for joining us. Tell us a about The Keeners.

Maura_Shaw: The Keeners is a historical novel that tells the story of a young woman in the Irish Famine of the mid-1840s, then moves to Troy.

Clyons:  I loved Margaret. Who is she?

 Maura_Shaw: Margaret isn't a real person in life, but she seems real to me. I got to know her better as I wrote through the first draft, and then went back in later drafts to strengthen her character once I knew her more intimately.

Clyons: You told us in interview about Nora, how is her story coming.

Maura_Shaw: I've been so busy promoting The Keeners that I haven't been able to get back to telling Nora's story. But I will. I'm aching to write again.

 Clyons: I know the feeling.

Maura_Shaw: Now that it's Spring, don't you feel your writing sap running again?

Clyons: I have been stuck, but I think that is work schedules.

Maura_Shaw: Lots of writers I know get very crabby when they're not writing...

Clyons: Yeah, just ask my grandkids.

Celebrindal: You've written your book, how do you chose who you shop to? And how many rejections did you suffer before landing?

Maura_Shaw: I spent three years looking for an agent, with no success. I had tried the top five literary fiction agents, and that's how long it took for them to get back to me. Then I decided to go it on my own. The first publisher I sent it to bought it in two weeks. A small fast-growing house called Medallion Press.

Celebrindal: So you submitted your ms unagented?

Maura_Shaw: Yes, I read an article about the publisher in Publishers Weekly and thought they seemed a good fit. I always read PW.

Maura_Shaw: Another book of mine I submitted to a publisher whose book fell off the shelf on my head at a bookstore. I thought it was a sign.

Rose: Oh! That is too funny Maura.

Vettes: So I should frequent bookstores to let a book fall on my head. Hahahaha

Rose: Heck I will stand there and shake the shelf.

Maura_Shaw: Seriously, Rose, look at the shelves where your own book should be and see who's publishing them.

Rose: I have a dry sense of humor, Maura. I have barely started looking right now, but it is a very good suggestion.

Maura_Shaw: I had an agent once but I sold two books in the time it took her not to sell my first novel.

Clyons: I have to wonder what these agents would take, The Keeners is beyond good and into great.

Maura_Shaw: Thanks, Char. They said it wasn't "literary" enough, but I write  stories, I don’t care if they have lit-snob appeal.

Vettes: What was some of the rejections from the agents?

 Maura_Shaw: One agent was close to taking it, asked for some revisions, which I did and made it a better book. Then she left the agency and the other partner wasn't interested in Irish stories. Another agent said there were too many books on the Famine. Not true. So I'm keeping the 15 percent commission myself.

Vettes: Sounds like just excuses?

Maura_Shaw: Well, as some one who has the sad task of rejecting manuscripts as an acquisition editor, I try to tell the truth and be helpful.

Vettes: My rejection just said it is not what they were looking for at the present.

Maura_Shaw: Each publisher has a specific target of what they want to publish on a particular list, by season or by topic.

Dave_M.: Can I ask - is your writing spontaneous or do you have to plan and plot?

Maura_Shaw: I outline the entire book, chapter by chapter, and then let each chapter reach its designated point by writing spontaneous. Sometimes characters or situations appear that relate later in the book, and I didn't realize I was setting them up

Celebrindal: What is your initial run from Medallion?

Maura_Shaw: Medallion didn't share the numbers with me, but I would estimate abut 5000 hardcovers for a first printing. If they let the hardcover go out of print before the mass market paperback appears, I'll be upset. But to me, this book has a mass appeal for readers who may not want to pay for a hardcover.

clyons : I agree.

Vettes: Did you ever consider paperbacks first or is that a publisher’s prerogative?

Maura_Shaw: The publisher makes that decision based on what they think will sell the book to the right market. I originally was scheduled for mass market paperback, which was fine with me, and then Medallion decided to launch a hardcover imprint to try to get more reviews of their books, and mine was the first. I was pleased at their belief in the book.

Celebrindal: Does Medallion charge any fees, and what part of the process beyond writing have you found the most aggravating?

 Maura_Shaw: Medallion doesn't charge fees--they're a very reputable young publisher and are always looking for new authors in many genres. Visit their website for submission guidelines.

Maura_Shaw: The aggravating part is that I've worked in publishing for so many years and would like to give them advice on marketing and promotion, but I can't.

Clyons: Well you can share it with us!

Rose: My real fear of submission is that the editors will slaughter my work like they once did to Char. What happens if I don't agree to changes the editors want? Is there give and take here?

Maura_Shaw: Usually there is give-and-take. Once at HarperSF the copyeditor totally ruined my book and I simply told the editor that he had to change it back to the original, which he did.

Rose: And if he wouldn't have? Would that automatically have broken any contract?

Maura_Shaw: It's never good to break a contract over editorial issues. As an editor, I hate those calls from authors who don't like their cover design or copyediting and threaten to walk. I like to work it out through discussion and compromise. We're a team. And by the time you're at that stage with a publisher, both you and they have a lot invested. Who wants to start over?

Rose: Thank you for an honest answer. I hope they all look at it that way.

Clyons: A team editor, I am for that.

Celebrindal: As an acquisitions editor what attracts you?

Maura_Shaw: I've been given a directive from my editor-in-chief that I need to find authors who are willing to spend time promoting their books after publication. No shrinking violets. Besides that, I look for good writing and a clear message, and a book that will sell to a definable audience

Vettes: A while back, when you said they have many genres, do they have any favorite?

Maura_Shaw: Medallion started out in romance but has greatly expanded their list. They like thrillers, SF, fantasy, mystery, general fiction. www.medallionpress.com

And they really do try to push each book as important--no playing favorites among the authors. For submitting to publishers and agents, I've found Jeff Herman's resource book to be the most accurate.

Rose: You said at that stage there is too much invested by both. Is editing not one of the first things done when a book is accepted?

Maura_Shaw: By the time the copyediting is underway, the acquisitions editor has already spent a lot of time, the marketing team has been discussing the book, the design team may already have been doing sample interiors and covers. A whole season's list of books moves forward through the stages.

 Maura_Shaw: Did you all know that in the UK, a book is published as submitted, without copyediting or proofreading? Scary!

Maura_Shaw: It's been fun and creative to tell people at signings and book events about the upcoming two books, though. And people share new stories that might work their way in.

Vettes: How do you set up a book signing if you are not a well known author?

Maura_Shaw: Once you have a firm pub date for your book, call your local independent bookstore and ask to speak to the events person. Offer to send a copy and a press release, and explain why you think you can draw a crowd of buyers. Maybe you have a large family who will buy books, or a writing/reading group who will come. Or connect it to a special holiday or event--at least 3 months in advance.

Vettes: I have friend who lets a person read a chapter and then tells them to buy the book when it is published.

Maura_Shaw: That's good. And your publisher may send out advance reading copies to some booksellers.

Celebrindal: Have you thought about speaking at high schools? And how many advance copies to send out are you allotted?

Maura_Shaw: For some of my books for younger readers, I do visit classrooms regularly. It's a lot of fun. For The Keeners, I am planning to contact high schools because the Famine is part of the Holocaust curriculum here in NY.

Maura_Shaw: The publisher usually sends out the advance copies to their list, sparing you the cost. If you can supply a list of other stores or possible reviewers, they'll send those too if they think it feasible. You can also ask for overrun jackets to send yourself.

Vettes: When you were first starting did you ever consider books like writer's digest for agents and publishers?

Maura_Shaw] Yes. The only problem with those books is that many fine publishers don't list themselves in the books, because they'll get too many submissions. I like Jeff Herman's book best. Can't remember the exact title but it's updated every couple of years and very informative. Websites are also very helpful for submission guidelines, etc. I pay attention to who is publishing the books that are similar to what I am writing, and look at their website.

Clyons: Cele and I both send market and resource lists to the group each week.

Maura_Shaw: Excellent.

Clyons: I hope you will visit Writing Road and take advantage of the links. http://home.earthlink.net/~clyons55

 Maura_Shaw: Thank you, I've looked at the site carefully and it's terrific.

Rose: What are overrun jackets?

Maura_Shaw: When they print your book jacket or cover, they can print 100-500 over the needed quantity to use for promotion. Cheaper to mail, and then someone won't just take your book and not review it, but sell it on Ebay.

Rose: Oh ouch! That would hurt.

 Maura_Shaw: Yep. Even before the book is in the stores.

Clyons: I have refused to review some books, but always donate them to the library.

Maura_Shaw: Thank you, Char.

Clyons: An Advertising exec, Brian Rouff, suggested using the cover jacket. Copies make excellent additions to the press kit

Rose: So I take these book jackets around to bookstores and give them out to our Council of the Arts, etc., and to individuals?

Maura_Shaw: Definitely. And it's nice to have a poster of the cover that you can give to bookstores or libraries where you schedule events.

Maura_Shaw: Yes, arts councils might want to add a signing to one of their art events. I did one last Saturday together with a watercolor artist who paints Irish scenes and sold a dozen books.

Rose:  Yeah, mine would do that. They really push local artists of all kinds.

Vettes: Do you decide or the publisher to put drawing in the book ?

Maura_Shaw: If the author submits the manuscript with drawings and the editor/publisher like them, then we'll use them. Or if we think a book needs some illustration, we'll suggest it.

Clyons: Maura, The Keeners is very well researched, but some of that must have been difficult since it is set during the famine. What did that research entail and how hard was it to find resources for something that happened so long ago?

Maura_Shaw: I read a lot of primary source materials, books of court testimony, diaries, etc. many of which I found only in Ireland. I've read Irish history ever since I was a child, so much was already familiar to me. I was lucky to work at the Yale University Library when I first started researching 25 years ago, and got a lot of stuff there. Plus interviewing older Irish people.

The love story just came naturally, without research! And I could sing Irish songs of rebellion to you until you hid under the table.

Clyons: Tom, Margaret's husband, is an Irish rebel, :-) Are you a bit of a rebel?

Maura_Shaw: Yes, quite a bit of Tom is also in my bones, and my father was very involved in that movement. One of my great-great-uncles was transported from Clare to Australia as a rebel. Nowadays, however, I'm more devoted to the peace process in Northern Ireland

 Rose: If you edited a book for an author, not connected with your publisher, what would you charge for that service?

Maura_Shaw: Because of my full-time job and other writing and family, I rarely take on freelance work anymore (although if I could replace the job...). Generally the costs would range from $25 to $50 per hour for in-depth editing.

 Rose: And how many hours would it take you to do a book?

Maura_Shaw: Depends on how publishable the book manuscript was to start with. Anywhere from 20-40 hours, usually. Sometimes I've just done the first several chapters and given the author instructions on how to carry on.

Rose: I am curious only because I have someone now who does it free, and I think she should charge.

Maura_Shaw: There's a great book on self-editing, though, that I used in my final draft. It's "Self-Editing for Fiction Writers" by Renni Browne.

Rose: Thanks. But I already know how to self edit myself. In fact, I have edited it to death, and that is supposed to be humor. I actually do appreciate that tip.

Maura_Shaw: I have a friend whose book I'm editing and we trade services. She's an acting coach and helped me with my book presentations.

Rose: I am very lucky, Maura. I have two wonderful and talented friends who I depended on for my crits. They are the best.

Vettes: When you discuss editing with a publisher do you do it in person, on the internet…?

Maura_Shaw: mostly by phone in the beginning to establish a relationship, then by email. I also use the edit tracking tool in MSWord to show editorial changes and suggestions.

Vettes: Do most publishers use Words, or Works?

Maura_Shaw: Most use MS Word, but there's a way to save Works docs into Word.

Vettes:  At the present my book is all in Works.

Maura_Shaw: Well, you'll probably be submitting it in hardcopy anyway, to begin.

Vettes: Hardcopy?

 Maura_Shaw: Printout on paper.

 Some of my writer friends have begun writing for the e-book publishers very successfully.

Clyons: Maura, thank you so mush for sharing your time and knowledge with us.

Maura_Shaw: I've enjoyed the time, and hope I've been helpful.

Clyons: I highly recommend the Keeners. We have an interview with Maura and review here on the site if you missed it in the newsletter. Where can they find The Keeners, Maura?

Maura_Shaw: The book is available in bookstores and online. Also visit my website at www.mauradshaw.com for photos of Ireland, etc.

Clyons: It is a great site, and the pictures are lovely.

Rose: Do you know what the response time with Medallion is?

Maura_Shaw:  People are telling me it can be up to a year right now, because they've gotten so many. But it depends.

Rose: A year just to hear if they will accept it?

Maura_Shaw: I can't really believe that myself.

Vettes: Wow!

Maura_Shaw: Average time for publishers is 3-4 months

Clyons: Vettes, then we will let Maura go, and hope she will join us another time.

Vettes: Do you have a minimum word count before you even consider a book?

Maura_Shaw: I truly prefer submissions that are complete manuscripts, but a proposal and 3-5 chapters is also acceptable. And a promotion marketing plan!

Vettes:  Thank you very much. This has been very enlightening from the author.

Maura_Shaw: Thanks, everybody. Have a lovely weekend.

Celebrindal: Thank you very much, you've been very enlightening Maura, I look forward to reading the Keeners.

Rose:  Maura, thank you for chatting with us. It was very informative, and I will look for your book. Is it in hardback in bookstores?

Maura_Shaw:  Yes, the paperback won't be out until next year. Hope you like it. Or ask your library to order it!

Clyons: Maura, thank you for joining us, and for the privilege of having The Keeners on Writers and Readers network.

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